Martian Mystery: Unveiling the Secrets of Arsia Mons' Elusive Clouds
Astronomy Daily: Space News October 16, 2026x
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Martian Mystery: Unveiling the Secrets of Arsia Mons' Elusive Clouds

AnnaAnnaHost
Show notes A cloud on Mars that forms only if textbook-theoretical physics really happens; Webb maps a hot Jupiter's edge angle by angle; multi-planet systems turn out to come in two families tied to their stars; and the Sagittarius dwarf galaxy's original disc is rebuilt from its own debris. Plus Hera's first braking burn, the station's final solar arrays, NASA ADS hands over to SciX, and a both-hemispheres skywatch. The Cloud That Shouldn't Exist Every morning in Mars's southern spring and summer, the Arsia Mons Elongated Cloud stretches up to 1,800 km from the 20 km volcano and vanishes within the day. A team led by Jorge Hernández-Bernal (LMD/CNRS/Sorbonne Université) could only reproduce it by adding homogeneous nucleation, in which vapour freezes with no dust seed, at supersaturation more than 100,000 times everyday Earth levels. A model result: sufficient, not yet observed directly. Nature Geoscience, 7 October 2026. A Map Around a Hot Jupiter's Edge Using JWST's NIRISS, NIRSpec and MIRI and the transmission strings method, Lili Alderson, Hannah Wakeford and colleagues mapped WASP-17 b's limb in 20° steps: ~860 K at the morning edge, ~1,520 K at the evening edge, the largest limb contrast yet. Data from March 2023. Nature Astronomy, 14 October 2026. Planetary Systems Come in Two Families Diego Turrini (INAF), Camilla Danielski and colleagues find 298 well-measured multi-planet systems split into a calm, compact low-mass family and a heavyweight family around metal-rich stars with about ten times more dynamical excitation. Nature Astronomy, 13 October 2026. Rewinding a Shredded Galaxy Zixi Guo, Xiang-Xiang Xue (NAOC) and colleagues reproduce a vertical metallicity gradient across the Sagittarius streams only if the dwarf began as a disc with an inverted-V metallicity profile, seen in 3 of 217 MaNGA dwarfs. Nature Astronomy, 13 October 2026. Quick hit Hera's 93-minute braking burn (BRM-1); CRS-35 and the ISS's final roll-out solar arrays; NASA ADS closes in November and becomes SciX. Skywatch Mercury and Venus in the southern evening sky; Venus inferior conjunction 24 Oct; crescent Moon in Ophiuchus; Sagittarius and WASP-17 high from Australia; Saturn all night; Mars and Jupiter closing pre-dawn toward 1.2° on 16 Nov; Orionids peak 21–22 Oct. Links · ESA: Mars's oddest cloud may be even odder than we thought (7 Oct 2026): https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Mars_Express/Mars_s_oddest_cloud_may_be_even_odder_than_we_thought · Hernández-Bernal et al., Nature Geoscience (2026), DOI 10.1038/s41561-026-02089-9: https://doi.org/10.1038/s41561-026-02089-9 · Preprint: arXiv 2609.37259: https://arxiv.org/abs/2609.37259 · Alderson et al., A spatial map of the atmospheric limb of a hot Jupiter, Nature Astronomy (2026): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-026-02986-4 · Turrini, Danielski et al., Two families of multi-planet systems, Nature Astronomy (2026): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-026-02990-8 · INAF Media: Due famiglie di sistemi planetari (13 Oct 2026): https://www.media.inaf.it/2026/10/13/famiglie-esopianeti-stella-madre/ · Guo, Xue et al., A ∧-like metallicity profile in the disk of the Sagittarius dwarf galaxy, Nature Astronomy (2026): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-026-02996-2 · ESA: Brake! Time for ESA's Hera asteroid mission to go slow (7 Oct 2026): https://www.esa.int/Space_Safety/Hera/Brake!_Time_for_ESA_s_Hera_asteroid_mission_to_go_slow · Spaceflight Now: CRS-35 launch (13 Oct 2026): https://spaceflightnow.com/?p=74541 · Nature Astronomy editorial: Farewell NASA ADS (12 Oct 2026): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-026-03009-y astronomydaily.io · @AstroDailyPod · Bitesz.com Podcast Network

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00:00:00 --> 00:00:03 Anna: Every morning in Mars southern spring, a

00:00:03 --> 00:00:05 thin white line peels away from a giant

00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 volcano and stretches up to 1

00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 kilometres across the planet. By afternoon

00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 it's gone. For eight years, nobody could make

00:00:13 --> 00:00:16 that cloud happen in a computer. This month

00:00:16 --> 00:00:18 somebody did. But only by switching on

00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 physics that had never been seen working in

00:00:21 --> 00:00:22 any planetary atmosphere.

00:00:22 --> 00:00:25 Avery: Also today, a hot Jupiter mapped around

00:00:25 --> 00:00:28 its edge, angle by angle, with a

00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 650 degree gap between its morning

00:00:31 --> 00:00:34 and its evening. Planetary systems that

00:00:34 --> 00:00:36 come in two distinct families. A

00:00:36 --> 00:00:39 shredded galaxy's chemistry rewound from its

00:00:39 --> 00:00:42 own debris. And a, uh, European spacecraft

00:00:42 --> 00:00:44 hitting the brakes on its way to the asteroid

00:00:44 --> 00:00:45 we once hit on purpose.

00:00:46 --> 00:00:48 Anna: This is Astronomy daily for Thursday

00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 15th October 2026.

00:00:51 --> 00:00:53 Series 5 Episode 205

00:00:54 --> 00:00:55 I'm Anna.

00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 Avery: And, um, I'm Avery. Let's get into it.

00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 Anna: We start on Mars, on the flank of a

00:01:01 --> 00:01:04 volcano called Arsia Mons. It's

00:01:04 --> 00:01:06 the SouthernMost of the three great Tharsis

00:01:06 --> 00:01:09 volcanoes, sitting just south of the

00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 Martian equator. And it rises about

00:01:12 --> 00:01:14 20 kilometres. That's more than twice the

00:01:14 --> 00:01:15 height of Everest.

00:01:16 --> 00:01:18 Avery: And in the mornings during the southern

00:01:18 --> 00:01:21 spring and summer it grows a tail.

00:01:21 --> 00:01:24 Anna: It does a thin streak of

00:01:24 --> 00:01:27 water ice cloud forms on the downwind side

00:01:27 --> 00:01:29 around sunrise and over a few hours

00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 it stretches out to as much as 1800

00:01:32 --> 00:01:35 kilometres. ESA describes that as roughly

00:01:35 --> 00:01:38 twice the length of the United Kingdom. For

00:01:38 --> 00:01:41 our North American listeners, think Los

00:01:41 --> 00:01:43 Angeles to Denver. Then it

00:01:43 --> 00:01:45 detaches from the mountain, drifts and

00:01:45 --> 00:01:48 evaporates. Next morning it does it

00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 all again, day after day for months.

00:01:52 --> 00:01:55 And it has a name, the Arcia Mons

00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 elongated cloud, or AMEC, to the people

00:01:58 --> 00:02:01 who studied it. ESA's Mars Express orbiter

00:02:01 --> 00:02:03 drew attention to it in 2018 and the

00:02:03 --> 00:02:05 team later found it had been partly

00:02:05 --> 00:02:08 photographed by Viking 2 back in the

00:02:08 --> 00:02:10 1970s. So the cloud isn't new.

00:02:10 --> 00:02:13 It's been there every Martian year. What's

00:02:13 --> 00:02:16 new is that somebody can finally explain it.

00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 Avery: Why has that been so hard? Clouds over

00:02:19 --> 00:02:21 mountains are hardly exotic. We get them

00:02:21 --> 00:02:22 here.

00:02:22 --> 00:02:25 Anna: We do Lee clouds, wave clouds,

00:02:25 --> 00:02:27 the lenticular clouds that look like flying

00:02:27 --> 00:02:30 saucers. Air flows over a mountain,

00:02:30 --> 00:02:33 gets pushed upward, cools and the water

00:02:33 --> 00:02:36 vapour condenses. The standard assumption

00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 was that Mars follows the same recipe

00:02:39 --> 00:02:41 with one key something for the

00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 ice to form on. On Earth that's

00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 dust, sea salt, pollen, soot.

00:02:47 --> 00:02:49 On Mars it's thought to be dust.

00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 Scientists call that heterogeneous

00:02:52 --> 00:02:55 nucleation. Ice grows on a

00:02:55 --> 00:02:55 seed.

00:02:56 --> 00:02:57 Avery: And, um, that recipe didn't work.

00:02:58 --> 00:03:00 Anna: The weather models reproduce the waves over

00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 archia Mons. They reproduce the cold,

00:03:04 --> 00:03:06 but they would not reproduce the cloud. Mars

00:03:06 --> 00:03:09 Express kept photographing not its

00:03:09 --> 00:03:11 shape, not its behaviour. That

00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 matters because these are the same models we

00:03:14 --> 00:03:17 lean on to understand the whole Martian water

00:03:17 --> 00:03:18 cycle.

00:03:18 --> 00:03:20 Avery: So what did the new study change?

00:03:20 --> 00:03:23 Anna: The paper is led by Jorge Hernandez

00:03:23 --> 00:03:25 Bernal of lmd, the Meteorology

00:03:25 --> 00:03:28 laboratory of CNRS at Sorbonne University

00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 in Paris, with Ani Matinen,

00:03:31 --> 00:03:34 Aimeric Spiga and Francois Fouguet.

00:03:35 --> 00:03:37 It was published on 7 October in Nature

00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 Geoscience. They added a process

00:03:40 --> 00:03:42 called homogeneous nucleation.

00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 Avery: Which means no seed at all.

00:03:46 --> 00:03:49 Anna: Exactly. Water vapour going

00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 straight to ice crystals in open air

00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 with nothing to grow on. It's in the

00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 textbooks, but it needs air that is wildly

00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 supersaturated, holding far more vapour than

00:04:00 --> 00:04:03 it should be able to. So it's normally

00:04:03 --> 00:04:06 treated as theory, possible on paper and

00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 assumed not to happen in a real atmosphere.

00:04:09 --> 00:04:11 When the team switched it on, the cloud

00:04:11 --> 00:04:14 appeared. Hernandez Bernal's line was that

00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 once they included this physics, the cloud

00:04:17 --> 00:04:18 emerged just as they'd hoped.

00:04:19 --> 00:04:21 Avery: How supersaturated are we talking?

00:04:21 --> 00:04:24 Anna: ESA says the relative humidity in the model

00:04:24 --> 00:04:27 reaches levels more than 100 times

00:04:27 --> 00:04:29 what we're used to in daily life on Earth.

00:04:29 --> 00:04:31 That number is really the whole story.

00:04:31 --> 00:04:33 Nowhere on our planet comes close.

00:04:33 --> 00:04:36 Avery: Give me an everyday picture of why the

00:04:36 --> 00:04:37 seed matters.

00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 Anna: Think about cloud seeding. When people try to

00:04:41 --> 00:04:43 coax rain from a cloud on Earth, they spray

00:04:43 --> 00:04:46 in tiny particles. Silver iodide, for

00:04:46 --> 00:04:48 example. Because water vapour finds it far

00:04:48 --> 00:04:51 easier to freeze or condense onto a surface

00:04:51 --> 00:04:53 than to organise itself from scratch.

00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 Building a crystal from nothing means a

00:04:56 --> 00:04:58 handful of molecules have to lock together by

00:04:58 --> 00:05:01 chance and survive long enough to grow. In

00:05:01 --> 00:05:03 ordinary air. That almost never happens,

00:05:04 --> 00:05:05 because long before the vapour gets that

00:05:05 --> 00:05:08 desperate, it has already found a speck of

00:05:08 --> 00:05:10 dust and used it. So homogeneous

00:05:10 --> 00:05:13 nucleation isn't forbidden, it's just always

00:05:13 --> 00:05:14 beaten to the punch.

00:05:14 --> 00:05:17 Avery: Unless there's no time to find the dust.

00:05:17 --> 00:05:20 Anna: Exactly. And that's what makes this volcano

00:05:20 --> 00:05:20 special.

00:05:21 --> 00:05:24 Avery: Why Arsium Mons, though? Why not every

00:05:24 --> 00:05:25 mountain on Mars?

00:05:25 --> 00:05:28 Anna: It's the combination. The Martian

00:05:28 --> 00:05:31 atmosphere is very thin and Arsia

00:05:31 --> 00:05:33 Mons is very tall. Wind

00:05:33 --> 00:05:36 blowing past the volcano sets up a strong

00:05:36 --> 00:05:39 atmospheric wave that lifts moist air

00:05:39 --> 00:05:42 several kilometres in a matter of minutes. In

00:05:42 --> 00:05:45 the model, the temperature drops by about 30

00:05:45 --> 00:05:48 degrees in 10 minutes. Air that cools that

00:05:48 --> 00:05:50 fast never gets the chance to use the dust.

00:05:51 --> 00:05:53 The humidity simply rockets until the vapour

00:05:53 --> 00:05:55 freezes on its own.

00:05:55 --> 00:05:58 Avery: Okay, so the mountain is effectively

00:05:59 --> 00:05:59 a

00:05:59 --> 00:06:02 Anna: giant cloud chamber that's a nice

00:06:02 --> 00:06:05 way to put it. A natural laboratory

00:06:05 --> 00:06:08 that happens to be 20 kilometres tall.

00:06:09 --> 00:06:11 Hernandez Bernal made a lovely point in the

00:06:11 --> 00:06:14 Spanish press. If earth had a

00:06:14 --> 00:06:16 20 metre mountain in the middle of

00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 Siberia, we might occasionally see

00:06:19 --> 00:06:22 something similar, though not nearly as long.

00:06:23 --> 00:06:25 Avery: Let's be careful here. Has anyone

00:06:25 --> 00:06:28 actually watched this happen on Mars?

00:06:29 --> 00:06:31 Anna: No, and that's the caveat we need to keep.

00:06:32 --> 00:06:34 Nobody has measured individual ice crystals

00:06:34 --> 00:06:37 forming without dust. What the team has

00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 shown is that a model only reproduces this

00:06:40 --> 00:06:42 cloud when that physics is switched on.

00:06:43 --> 00:06:46 The paper's own title is Careful. It says

00:06:46 --> 00:06:49 homogeneous nucleation is suggested by

00:06:49 --> 00:06:51 these clouds. Not proven. And

00:06:52 --> 00:06:54 ESA notes that some features of the modelled

00:06:54 --> 00:06:57 cloud still don't exactly match the

00:06:57 --> 00:06:57 observations.

00:06:58 --> 00:07:01 Avery: So it's sufficiency, not proof.

00:07:01 --> 00:07:04 Anna: It's the same distinction we drew back in

00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 episode 197 with the little red dot

00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 simulations. A model that reproduces

00:07:10 --> 00:07:12 an observation tells you a mechanism can do

00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 the job. It doesn't rule out every other

00:07:15 --> 00:07:18 mechanism, but the team did try

00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 the conventional physics first and it failed.

00:07:21 --> 00:07:22 That counts for something.

00:07:23 --> 00:07:25 Avery: Avery. And, um, how fresh is it?

00:07:25 --> 00:07:26 Anna: Very.

00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 The preprint went up on 29

00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 September, about a week before the journal

00:07:31 --> 00:07:34 version. So this is genuinely new work.

00:07:35 --> 00:07:37 Avery: Who should care? Beyond the people who study

00:07:37 --> 00:07:38 Martian weather?

00:07:38 --> 00:07:41 Anna: Three groups, I'd say. First,

00:07:41 --> 00:07:44 Mars modellers. If one cloud needs

00:07:44 --> 00:07:47 this physics, other high cold Martian

00:07:47 --> 00:07:49 clouds might too, and that changes how water

00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 moves around the planet. Second, people

00:07:52 --> 00:07:55 who study Earth. The authors say the result

00:07:55 --> 00:07:57 is relevant to certain clouds here as well.

00:07:58 --> 00:08:01 And third, exoplanet scientists. When

00:08:01 --> 00:08:03 we build models of atmospheres around other

00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 stars, we tend to prune out processes we

00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 think are too unlikely to matter. ESA's Mars

00:08:08 --> 00:08:11 Express project scientist Colin Wilson put it

00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 neatly. Understanding an exotic Martian

00:08:14 --> 00:08:16 cloud took exotic physics, and that may be

00:08:16 --> 00:08:18 true elsewhere in the cosmos too.

00:08:19 --> 00:08:21 Avery: And it took an, um, old spacecraft to catch

00:08:21 --> 00:08:21 it.

00:08:21 --> 00:08:24 Anna: Mars Express, launched in 2003.

00:08:24 --> 00:08:26 Its orbit is highly elliptical, which lets it

00:08:26 --> 00:08:29 see Mars in the morning. And very few

00:08:29 --> 00:08:32 orbiters can do that. ESA's ExoMars

00:08:32 --> 00:08:35 Trace Gas Orbiter is one of the others. This

00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 study used three Mars Express instruments.

00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 The Visual Monitoring Camera, nicknamed the

00:08:40 --> 00:08:42 Mars Webcam, the High Resolution Stereo

00:08:42 --> 00:08:45 Camera and the Omega Spectrometer. It's

00:08:45 --> 00:08:47 also the first time ESA has released stereo

00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 camera imagery of this cloud. It's a good

00:08:50 --> 00:08:52 reminder that old missions watching patiently

00:08:52 --> 00:08:54 are how you catch things that only exist for

00:08:54 --> 00:08:55 a few hours

00:08:55 --> 00:08:57 Avery: a day and a southern angle to

00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 Anna: finish a small one. But true,

00:09:01 --> 00:09:03 this is a southern spring cloud it

00:09:03 --> 00:09:06 only appears in spring and summer in Mars's

00:09:06 --> 00:09:08 southern hemisphere, the same season we're

00:09:08 --> 00:09:11 enjoying here in Sydney right now, just on a

00:09:11 --> 00:09:13 Martian calendar that runs nearly twice as

00:09:13 --> 00:09:14 long as ours,

00:09:14 --> 00:09:17 Avery: from a cloud on Mars to the edge of a planet

00:09:17 --> 00:09:20 around another star. Wasp

00:09:20 --> 00:09:22 17B is a hot Jupiter in the constellation

00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 Scorpius. It has about half of Jupiter's

00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 mass, but nearly twice its width. So it's

00:09:28 --> 00:09:30 enormously puffed up at, uh, around

00:09:30 --> 00:09:33 1700 degrees, which makes it a

00:09:33 --> 00:09:35 Anna: gift for transit studies.

00:09:36 --> 00:09:38 Avery: Exactly. When a planet crosses its star,

00:09:38 --> 00:09:41 a thin ring of atmosphere around its edge

00:09:41 --> 00:09:43 lets starlight filter through and different

00:09:43 --> 00:09:46 molecules absorb different colours. Usually,

00:09:46 --> 00:09:49 astronomers average that whole ring into one

00:09:49 --> 00:09:51 spectrum. Lately, they've split it into two

00:09:52 --> 00:09:54 the morning side, where gas is arriving from

00:09:54 --> 00:09:56 the night, and the evening side, where it's

00:09:56 --> 00:09:57 leaving the day.

00:09:58 --> 00:10:01 Anna: And this team went further, much

00:10:01 --> 00:10:01 further.

00:10:01 --> 00:10:04 Avery: The paper published yesterday in Nature

00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 Astronomy, is led by Lily Alderson with

00:10:07 --> 00:10:09 Hannah Wakeford and David Grant of the

00:10:09 --> 00:10:10 University of Bristol and colleagues,

00:10:10 --> 00:10:13 including Tiffany Kataria, uh, at jpl. They

00:10:13 --> 00:10:16 used a technique called transmission strings,

00:10:16 --> 00:10:18 which Grant and wakeford developed in 2023.

00:10:19 --> 00:10:21 Instead of assuming the planet's silhouette

00:10:21 --> 00:10:23 is a perfect circle, it lets the outline

00:10:23 --> 00:10:26 bulge and dip and then reads off a separate

00:10:26 --> 00:10:29 spectrum at any angle around the edge. They

00:10:29 --> 00:10:31 stepped from the morning equator over the

00:10:31 --> 00:10:34 pole to the evening equator in 20 degree

00:10:34 --> 00:10:34 increments.

00:10:35 --> 00:10:36 Anna: Using which instruments?

00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 Avery: Three of Niris, NirSpec

00:10:39 --> 00:10:42 and Miri, covering 0.6

00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 to 12 microns. And the headline

00:10:45 --> 00:10:47 is a temperature gradient around the limb.

00:10:47 --> 00:10:49 The morning edge comes out near

00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 860Kelvin, the evening edge

00:10:52 --> 00:10:55 near 1520Kelvin.

00:10:55 --> 00:10:58 That's a contrast of about 650

00:10:58 --> 00:11:01 degrees, the largest limb contrast measured

00:11:01 --> 00:11:03 so far. For comparison,

00:11:03 --> 00:11:05 WASP39B showed about

00:11:05 --> 00:11:06 180.

00:11:06 --> 00:11:08 Anna: Does the chemistry change, too?

00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 Avery: Water and carbon dioxide stay roughly

00:11:10 --> 00:11:13 constant all the way around, which is what

00:11:13 --> 00:11:15 circulation models predict. There are hints

00:11:15 --> 00:11:17 of more methane toward the poles, but the

00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 authors say plainly that isn't well

00:11:19 --> 00:11:21 constrained. And the temperatures agree with

00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 Webb's separate maps of the dayside and the

00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 night side. So WASP 17B is now one of

00:11:26 --> 00:11:28 the most completely mapped exoplanets there

00:11:28 --> 00:11:31 is. Caveats 2 they

00:11:31 --> 00:11:34 assumed the northern and southern halves of

00:11:34 --> 00:11:36 the planet match to keep the computation

00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 manageable. And each wavelength fit still

00:11:39 --> 00:11:41 took about two weeks on 40 processors

00:11:42 --> 00:11:44 and a UH disclosure. The Webb observations

00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 were made in March 2023. The paper is new

00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 this week, but the light is three and a half

00:11:49 --> 00:11:52 Anna: years old, and for anyone wanting to

00:11:52 --> 00:11:55 Avery: find the star, it sits at

00:11:55 --> 00:11:58 minus 28 degrees. So it's a southern

00:11:58 --> 00:12:00 object. Tonight it's about 40 degrees up

00:12:00 --> 00:12:03 at sunset from Sydney. From Los Angeles

00:12:03 --> 00:12:06 it's 14 degrees up and gone by full dark.

00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 And from London it barely clears the horizon.

00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 It's 11th magnitude. So you'll need a

00:12:13 --> 00:12:16 telescope. But it's a nice thought that the

00:12:16 --> 00:12:18 best mapped edge of any alien world is

00:12:18 --> 00:12:20 hanging over Australia this evening.

00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 Anna: Next, a uh, big picture look at planetary

00:12:23 --> 00:12:26 systems. We now know of more than 1 stars

00:12:26 --> 00:12:28 with more than one planet. And um, they look

00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 wildly different from one another. The

00:12:30 --> 00:12:32 question has always been whether that variety

00:12:32 --> 00:12:35 is baked in at birth or sculpted later.

00:12:35 --> 00:12:36 Avery: And um, the answer is.

00:12:37 --> 00:12:40 Anna: According to a team led by Diego Torrini of

00:12:40 --> 00:12:42 inaf, the Italian National Institute for

00:12:42 --> 00:12:45 Astrophysics. With Camilla Danielski of

00:12:45 --> 00:12:48 the University of Valencia, the answer is

00:12:48 --> 00:12:48 both.

00:12:49 --> 00:12:52 They studied 298 Multi Planet

00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 Systems whose masses and orbits are well

00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 measured. And published on Tuesday in Nature

00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 Astronomy. When they sorted them by total

00:12:59 --> 00:13:02 planet mass relative to the star, the system

00:13:02 --> 00:13:04 split into two clear groups.

00:13:05 --> 00:13:06 Avery: Two families.

00:13:07 --> 00:13:09 Anna: Two families. The lower mass family is

00:13:09 --> 00:13:12 compact. Planets of similar size sit in tight

00:13:12 --> 00:13:14 orbits, often far closer to their star than

00:13:14 --> 00:13:17 Mercury is to ours. That's the so called

00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 peas in a pod pattern. Kepler revealed their

00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 host stars are the Sun's mass or smaller,

00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 with the Sun's chemistry or less. And

00:13:25 --> 00:13:27 dynamically they're fairly calm, comparable

00:13:27 --> 00:13:28 to our own solar system.

00:13:29 --> 00:13:32 Avery: And um, the other family heavyweights.

00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 Anna: Total mass is typically 2 to 10 times

00:13:36 --> 00:13:39 our solar systems around stars that are

00:13:39 --> 00:13:41 more massive and richer in heavy elements

00:13:41 --> 00:13:44 than the sun. Combining stellar mass

00:13:44 --> 00:13:46 and metallicity, their birth discs held

00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 roughly three times more dust and ice. And

00:13:49 --> 00:13:52 their orbits are about 10 times more stirred

00:13:52 --> 00:13:54 up, more eccentric and more tilted than in

00:13:54 --> 00:13:55 the Kolm family.

00:13:56 --> 00:13:59 Avery: Which suggests what violence.

00:13:59 --> 00:14:01 Anna: Danae Polycroni of INAF led the

00:14:01 --> 00:14:04 simulations. And the systems that best match

00:14:04 --> 00:14:06 the heavy family are the ones that were

00:14:06 --> 00:14:09 unstable from the start. Too much planet

00:14:09 --> 00:14:11 building material makes planets too big to

00:14:11 --> 00:14:14 sit peacefully. They scatter, collide and

00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 fling each other out. In those runs, most

00:14:17 --> 00:14:19 systems loft at least one planet.

00:14:20 --> 00:14:21 Avery: That uh, rings a bell.

00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 Anna: It does. Back in episode

00:14:24 --> 00:14:27 195 we covered Batygin's work on

00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 how our own solar system could be

00:14:29 --> 00:14:31 destabilised far in the future.

00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 This is the same physics running at the

00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 start of a system's life instead of the end.

00:14:38 --> 00:14:40 Perini's phrase for the link between star and

00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 planets is genetic. One what you're born

00:14:43 --> 00:14:45 with shapes what you become.

00:14:46 --> 00:14:47 Avery: Caveats.

00:14:47 --> 00:14:50 Anna: Danielski herself flagged the big one.

00:14:51 --> 00:14:53 The team's main worry was whether the split

00:14:53 --> 00:14:56 was real or just a product of how we find

00:14:56 --> 00:14:59 planets. Because transits favour compact

00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 systems and radial velocities favour

00:15:02 --> 00:15:04 massive ones. They tested four

00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 independently selected samples and the split

00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 held in all of them. But we still can't

00:15:09 --> 00:15:12 easily see wide systems of modest planets.

00:15:12 --> 00:15:15 So a, uh, middle population could be hiding.

00:15:16 --> 00:15:18 And a small. The planet

00:15:18 --> 00:15:20 catalogue was downloaded in October last

00:15:20 --> 00:15:20 year.

00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 Avery: And where does that leave us?

00:15:23 --> 00:15:26 Anna: Somewhere in between. Our solar

00:15:26 --> 00:15:29 system's calm history matches the lower

00:15:29 --> 00:15:32 mass family, but it's much more spread out

00:15:32 --> 00:15:34 than those compact systems. It's

00:15:34 --> 00:15:37 another reminder not to treat the sun and its

00:15:37 --> 00:15:39 planets as the universal template.

00:15:40 --> 00:15:43 Avery: Our third story is galactic

00:15:43 --> 00:15:43 archaeology.

00:15:44 --> 00:15:46 The Sagittarius dwarf galaxy was only

00:15:46 --> 00:15:49 discovered in 1994, hiding behind the

00:15:49 --> 00:15:51 crowded centre of the Milky Way. And it's

00:15:51 --> 00:15:54 being torn apart. Its stars now stream around

00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 our galaxy in long ribbons that wrap the sky.

00:15:58 --> 00:16:00 Anna: So can you work out what it looked like

00:16:00 --> 00:16:02 before it was shredded?

00:16:02 --> 00:16:05 Avery: That's the challenge. And positions and

00:16:05 --> 00:16:07 speeds of the debris alone don't get you very

00:16:07 --> 00:16:10 far. A team led by Ziji Guo and

00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 Shangsheng Zhu at the National Astronomical

00:16:13 --> 00:16:15 Observatories of China added chemistry.

00:16:16 --> 00:16:18 Using STREAM members from China's LAMOS

00:16:18 --> 00:16:20 survey telescope, they looked at how the

00:16:20 --> 00:16:22 abundance of heavy elements, the

00:16:22 --> 00:16:25 metallicity, changes across the width of the

00:16:25 --> 00:16:26 streams.

00:16:26 --> 00:16:27 Anna: And it changes.

00:16:28 --> 00:16:31 Avery: It does. There's a vertical metallicity

00:16:31 --> 00:16:34 gradient across the streams. The team ran

00:16:34 --> 00:16:36 large computer simulations of the dwarf

00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 galaxy falling into the Milky Way. And the

00:16:39 --> 00:16:41 only way to reproduce that gradient was if

00:16:41 --> 00:16:43 Sagittarius started out as a disc whose

00:16:43 --> 00:16:46 metallicity had an unusual shape.

00:16:46 --> 00:16:49 Normally, a galaxy disc is most metal rich at

00:16:49 --> 00:16:51 the centre and gets poorer as you go outward.

00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 Sagittarius instead looks like an inverted V.

00:16:55 --> 00:16:58 Metallicity rises from the centre, peaks

00:16:58 --> 00:16:59 partway out, then falls again.

00:17:00 --> 00:17:01 Anna: Is that weird?

00:17:02 --> 00:17:04 Avery: Rare, but not unique.

00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 They searched 217 dwarf galaxies in

00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 the manga survey and found three with the

00:17:11 --> 00:17:14 same shape. And intriguingly, the

00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 Milky Way's own integrated metallicity

00:17:16 --> 00:17:19 profile looks similar. So the authors raise

00:17:19 --> 00:17:21 the question of whether the two galaxies

00:17:21 --> 00:17:24 have, in some sense, evolved together.

00:17:24 --> 00:17:25 Anna: Caveats.

00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 Avery: It's, uh, a reconstruction from simulations.

00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 So it shows a disc like that can reproduce

00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 the streams. Not that nothing else could.

00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 And a, uh, disclosure on timing. The paper

00:17:37 --> 00:17:40 was published this week, but it was first

00:17:40 --> 00:17:42 submitted in July last year. So it's been

00:17:42 --> 00:17:44 more than a year in review.

00:17:45 --> 00:17:47 Anna: There's a callback here, too.

00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 Avery: There is? In episode 195,

00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 we covered Rubin GC1,

00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 a newly found globular cluster that Rubin

00:17:56 --> 00:17:58 data traced back to Sagittarius.

00:17:59 --> 00:18:02 Every piece of this galaxy we recover helps

00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 rebuild the hole. And the southern andal is

00:18:05 --> 00:18:07 literal. The core of Sagittarius sits, uh, at

00:18:07 --> 00:18:10 minus 30 degrees, about 60

00:18:10 --> 00:18:12 degrees up from Sydney at full dark tonight

00:18:13 --> 00:18:15 against 22 from Los Angeles and 5 from

00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 London. Its nucleus is the globular

00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 cluster Messier 54, an easy

00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 telescope target just below the teapot.

00:18:24 --> 00:18:26 Anna: Three quick ones. First,

00:18:26 --> 00:18:29 AESA's HERA mission was due to fire its

00:18:29 --> 00:18:32 thrusters for 93 minutes in the early

00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 hours of today, European time. It

00:18:35 --> 00:18:37 was the first of its braking burns on

00:18:37 --> 00:18:39 approach to Didymus and Dimorphous, the

00:18:39 --> 00:18:42 asteroid pair NASA's DART spacecraft struck

00:18:42 --> 00:18:45 in 2022, shortening the moonlet's

00:18:45 --> 00:18:47 orbit by about 33 minutes.

00:18:47 --> 00:18:49 Avery: As we record, ESA hasn't yet confirmed the

00:18:49 --> 00:18:52 result. Its new NORSHA antenna in Western

00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 Australia is among the stations tracking it

00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 and we'll bring you the outcome tomorrow.

00:18:56 --> 00:18:58 Arrival at the asteroids is due in November

00:18:59 --> 00:18:59 2.

00:18:59 --> 00:19:02 Anna: A cargo Dragon launched from Florida on

00:19:02 --> 00:19:04 Tuesday on NASA's CRS 35

00:19:04 --> 00:19:07 mission, carrying more than three tons of

00:19:07 --> 00:19:09 supplies and the final pair of rollout solar

00:19:09 --> 00:19:11 arrays for the International Space Station.

00:19:12 --> 00:19:14 It's due to dock at 11:00am Eastern Time

00:19:14 --> 00:19:16 today, which is 2:00 clock tomorrow morning

00:19:16 --> 00:19:17 in Sydney.

00:19:18 --> 00:19:20 Avery: And third, a, uh, farewell after more than

00:19:20 --> 00:19:23 33 years. NASA's Astrophysics Data

00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 System, the digital library almost every

00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 astronomer uses, closes its doors in

00:19:28 --> 00:19:30 November. It's being replaced by a broader

00:19:30 --> 00:19:33 successor called Science Explorer, or SciEx.

00:19:34 --> 00:19:35 Nature Astronomy marked the occasion with an

00:19:35 --> 00:19:38 editorial this week. The papers aren't going

00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 anywhere, they're just moving house.

00:19:40 --> 00:19:42 Anna: Time to look up. And tonight, the evening

00:19:42 --> 00:19:45 western sky splits the hemispheres neatly.

00:19:45 --> 00:19:47 Mercury reached its greatest distance from

00:19:47 --> 00:19:49 the sun on Monday and is still well placed

00:19:49 --> 00:19:51 for southern observers from Sydney.

00:19:51 --> 00:19:54 Tonight it's about 24 degrees up at sunset

00:19:54 --> 00:19:56 and sets roughly two hours after the Sun.

00:19:57 --> 00:19:59 Avery: That's a terrific apparition, one of the

00:19:59 --> 00:20:02 Anna: best of the year for the south. Venus is

00:20:02 --> 00:20:05 below it, about 14 degrees up at sunset from

00:20:05 --> 00:20:07 Sydney and setting an hour and a quarter

00:20:07 --> 00:20:10 after the Sun. In North America, it's a

00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 different story from Los angeles. Mercury is

00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 10 degrees up at sunset and sets within the

00:20:15 --> 00:20:18 hour, while Venus sets with the Sun. From

00:20:18 --> 00:20:21 New York, Mercury is about 7 degrees up and

00:20:21 --> 00:20:23 Venus is already gone from London,

00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 Mercury barely clears the horizon

00:20:26 --> 00:20:29 Avery: and Venus is about to leave us altogether.

00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 Anna: It reaches inferior conjunction on the

00:20:32 --> 00:20:35 24th of October, passing between us

00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 and the Sun. Right now it's a

00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 thin Crescent, about 4% lit,

00:20:41 --> 00:20:44 but a large one, merely a full arcminute

00:20:44 --> 00:20:44 across.

00:20:45 --> 00:20:48 Avery: Which brings us to our standing safety note.

00:20:48 --> 00:20:50 And um, this week it matters as Venus

00:20:50 --> 00:20:52 slides toward the Sun. Please don't go

00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 hunting for it with binoculars or a telescope

00:20:55 --> 00:20:58 while the sun is above the horizon. Sweeping

00:20:58 --> 00:21:00 optics across the sun can damage your eyes

00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 instantly and permanently. Never

00:21:03 --> 00:21:05 look directly at the sun for any solar

00:21:05 --> 00:21:06 viewing.

00:21:06 --> 00:21:08 Use only eclipse glasses certified to ISO

00:21:08 --> 00:21:11 1M 23122 and fit

00:21:11 --> 00:21:13 telescopes and binoculars with proper

00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 certified solar filters over the front.

00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 Anna: The crescent Moon is in the evening sky too

00:21:19 --> 00:21:21 in Ophiuchus tonight, about a quarter

00:21:21 --> 00:21:24 lit from Sydney it's more than 50

00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 degrees up at sunset from New York it's

00:21:27 --> 00:21:30 about 17. First quarter falls

00:21:30 --> 00:21:33 on Sunday the 18th in the Americas and early

00:21:33 --> 00:21:34 Monday morning here in Australia.

00:21:35 --> 00:21:38 Avery: And two of today's stories are overhead. For

00:21:38 --> 00:21:39 the south they are.

00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 Anna: The teapot of Sagittarius is high

00:21:42 --> 00:21:45 after dark from Australia with the

00:21:45 --> 00:21:48 shredded Sagittarius dwarf galaxy sitting

00:21:48 --> 00:21:51 behind it about 60 degrees up at full

00:21:51 --> 00:21:53 dark from Sydney. And wasp 17

00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 is still about 24 degrees up in Scorpius

00:21:57 --> 00:22:00 at full dark. The honest balance

00:22:00 --> 00:22:02 is that this has been a southern evening

00:22:02 --> 00:22:03 sky all week.

00:22:04 --> 00:22:07 Avery: So what does the north get the mornings?

00:22:08 --> 00:22:10 Anna: Saturn is just past opposition,

00:22:11 --> 00:22:13 rising in the east at sunset, shining at

00:22:13 --> 00:22:16 magnitude 0.4 and visible all

00:22:16 --> 00:22:19 night everywhere. Its M rings are tilted

00:22:19 --> 00:22:22 only about 7 degrees towards us this year,

00:22:22 --> 00:22:25 so in a small telescope they look like a thin

00:22:25 --> 00:22:28 bright blade rather than the wide ellipse in

00:22:28 --> 00:22:31 the textbook pictures. But the real show

00:22:31 --> 00:22:34 is before dawn. Mars and Jupiter

00:22:34 --> 00:22:36 are about 12 degrees apart and closing

00:22:37 --> 00:22:40 from New York at nautical dawn tomorrow. Mars

00:22:40 --> 00:22:43 is about 56 degrees up and Jupiter

00:22:43 --> 00:22:45 about 46 from Sydney they're

00:22:45 --> 00:22:48 23 and 19. They'll be just

00:22:48 --> 00:22:51 1.2 degrees apart on the 16th of November,

00:22:52 --> 00:22:54 so watch the gap shrink week by week.

00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 Avery: And a meteor shower on the way.

00:22:58 --> 00:23:00 Anna: The Orionids peak on the night of the

00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 21st into the 22nd of October.

00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 They're dust from Hallie's Comet, the same

00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 comet that gives us the Eta uh, Aquarids in

00:23:09 --> 00:23:11 May. The radiant is in Orion

00:23:11 --> 00:23:14 and rises around midnight, so the pre dawn

00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 hours are best. The moon will be about

00:23:17 --> 00:23:20 3/4 lit, but setting in the early hours

00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 which help the north has the edge here

00:23:22 --> 00:23:23 too.

00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 At dawn the radiant is about 64 degrees up

00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 from New York against 40 from Sydney.

00:23:29 --> 00:23:32 Southern observers still see respectable show

00:23:32 --> 00:23:34 just with fewer meteors per hour.

00:23:34 --> 00:23:36 Avery: Evenings for the south, mornings for the

00:23:36 --> 00:23:36 north.

00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 Anna: That's the shape of it this week. Some

00:23:40 --> 00:23:42 weeks it runs the other way.

00:23:43 --> 00:23:46 Avery: That's Astronomy AstroDailyPod for today. We

00:23:46 --> 00:23:49 started with a 20 kilometre volcano making

00:23:49 --> 00:23:51 clouds the textbook said shouldn't form,

00:23:52 --> 00:23:55 then mapped the edge of a planet in Scorpius,

00:23:55 --> 00:23:58 sorted planetary systems into two families

00:23:58 --> 00:24:00 and rewound a shredded galaxy.

00:24:00 --> 00:24:03 Anna: Tomorrow we'll have the outcome of

00:24:03 --> 00:24:06 Hera's first breaking burn and next

00:24:06 --> 00:24:08 Monday we'll preview Japan's Martian

00:24:08 --> 00:24:11 Moons exploration mission MMX UM M

00:24:12 --> 00:24:13 ahead of its launch.

00:24:14 --> 00:24:16 Avery: You'll find the show notes, links to every

00:24:16 --> 00:24:18 paper and the full back catalogue at

00:24:18 --> 00:24:21 astronomydaily IO that's also where you

00:24:21 --> 00:24:23 can sign up for the newsletter or send us a

00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 question through the contact form. Several of

00:24:26 --> 00:24:27 our best segments have started that way.

00:24:28 --> 00:24:31 Anna: We are AstroDaily Pod on social

00:24:31 --> 00:24:34 media and Astronomy AstroDailyPod is part of

00:24:34 --> 00:24:36 the bytes.com podcast network.

00:24:37 --> 00:24:39 If you're enjoying the show, a uh, rating or

00:24:39 --> 00:24:42 review really does help other people find us.

00:24:42 --> 00:24:43 Thanks for listening. I'm Anna.

00:24:44 --> 00:24:46 Avery: And I'm Avery. Clear Skies

00:24:46 --> 00:24:49 Astronomy Day Mhm.

00:24:49 --> 00:24:50 The stories.

00:25:06 --> 00:25:06 We told.